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April 29, 2008

Endless gas tax holiday?

by Sylvia S Tognetti

When McCain, and then Clinton, started to call for a summer holiday on the gas tax, my first thought was, if it was actually suspended for the summer, good luck to whoever tries to reinstate it in the fall. That is because prices hover around the breaking point and therefore would just rise to fill the gap. Krugman has a concise textbook explanation, worth searing into the brain:

Why doesn’t cutting the gas tax this summer make sense? It’s Econ 101 tax incidence theory: if the supply of a good is more or less unresponsive to the price, the price to consumers will always rise until the quantity demanded falls to match the quantity supplied. Cut taxes, and all that happens is that the pretax price rises by the same amount. The McCain gas tax plan is a giveaway to oil companies, disguised as a gift to consumers....

...The Clinton twist is that she proposes paying for the revenue loss with an excess profits tax on oil companies. In one pocket, out the other. So it’s pointless, not evil. But it is pointless, and disappointing.

Kudos to Obama for not pandering on this one, and for turning it into a teachable moment. If he sticks to it and still manages to get the nomination, he will have demonstrated his ability to not just tell voters what they want to hear. Still probably easy compared to any attempt to reinstate it later. I know this is pushing it but, by that logic, it is conceivable that the price would stay the same even if the tax were raised....

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 10:10 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack

Another kernel of truth

by Sylvia S Tognetti

Last night Stephen Colbert explained the "efficiency" of corn ethanol, which has presumably "solved" the climate crisis - or at least provided a good introduction. You can fly across the Atlantic and wipe out an amount of land equivalent to 30 soccer fields! What he didn't say is that conversion of land to soccer fields also emits carbon stored in vegetation and soil. And that it isn't just the Brits raining on the petro parade. Last week I attended the AMS seminar on Biofuels, Land Conversion and Climate Change, in which several of our own American scientists - Joseph Fargione, Timothy Searchinger, David Tilman, and Daniel Kammen, provided a good overview of this topic (powerpoints here; podcast and vidcasts expected to be up shortly). A few highlights from my notes:

Previous research findings that corn ethanol reduces emissions by 13% did not consider land use change.

Use of land to grow corn for ethanol raises crop prices, not only for corn. So it is creating pressure to take land out of the Conservation Reserve Program - the amount of acreage in the program was reduced by 2.3 million acres in 2007, and >4.5 million are set to expire in 2010, but they could leave sooner if the farm lobby is successful in getting penalties waived for breaking their contracts.

It also creates pressure to convert native prairie grass to corn fields - native prairie grass fields store 286 tons per hectare of carbon, which is 160 more tons/ha than cornfields. From 2002-2007, >500,000 acres were converted in Montana and the Dakotas. The amount of carbon released is 93 times the amount "saved" by using ethanol.

But most new corn crops come from the displacement of soybean crops. This raises the price of soybeans, which leads to deforestation in the Amazon rather than here. The Amazon stores even more carbon than prairies (927 tons/ha), which is 815 tons/ha more than a soybean field. The amount of carbon released is then 319 times the amount "saved" by using biodiesel from soy. The worst case scenarios is palm oil from peatlands....

Then there is the issue of forgone ongoing carbon sequestration services that soils and vegetation would have continued to provide, and the indirect effects, which can be even more significant (e.g., food prices, algal blooms, biodiversity loss, water consumption....), not to mention the land that will be needed to double food production to feed the expected population of 9 billion.

Land use change overall is estimated to account for 1/5th of global emissions of greenhouse gases but my guess is that that estimate has yet to include increased pressure on land from biofuels.

The good news is, that not all biofuels fuels are alike and we shouldn't be lumping them into a single category. Obtained instead from waste biomass, from switchgrass, and from other perennial crops grown on degraded lands, use of biofuels can be efficient and even carbon negative, and can provide an economic incentive to restore those degraded lands. Prices and markets alone won't bring about the needed transition. As Kammen said in the final presentation, "there is no peak dirty energy."

Apparently Joe Romm was also there and blogged it here.

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 10:03 AM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

April 27, 2008

Transcend this!

by Sylvia S Tognetti

I caught a few snips of Sen. Obama being interviewed on Fox News this morning (transcript here) and am disappointed to say that both of our leading contenders for the Democratic nomination are still falling into the trap of reinforcing caricatures of Democrats that are inherent in the talking points of what has become the mainstream lunatic fringe. Sen. Clinton fell into that trap most notably and recently when she felt compelled to "disagree" with MoveOn, on a position they never took. So lets just say they are both allowing themselves to get framed, but since I try to stick to environmental science and policy here, for now I'll just respond to Obama's remarks about regulations vs markets.

If Obama wants to transcend partisanship, instead proliferating the image of Democrats as advocates of top down regulation vs Republicans as advocates of market solutions for environmental problems, when asked set up with the question about where he might have differences with his own party, he could have, instead, taken the opportunity to say something more interesting, which is that the markets vs regulations debate is just an old tape that keeps getting replayed, and that there are legitimate debates, even among Democrats, over how best to confront complex environmental problems for which regulations alone are clearly inadequate. And that many Republicans, less bound by caricatures and ideological convictions, are already part of that conversation.

Although it doesn't fit so neatly into soundbites, most of those engaged in environmental issues have, for quite some time now, known and acknowledged that end-of-the-pipe command-and-control regulatory solutions were only useful for going after the low-hanging fruit. From non-point source pollution such as stormwater and agricultural runoff, to global warming, we have had had to contend with a more complex breed of problems that requires a wide range of complementary approaches, including but not limited to market-based incentives. Secondly, regulations and markets are not an either or proposition - for example, for a cap and trade policy to work, you need regulations or policies to set a cap, and also to determine how permits are allocated and how revenues are used - which is the actual crux of the debate. Without that, markets will just stay the course that is inherent in the status quo and in existing policies.

Presidential candidates aren't the only ones guilty of this of course. Given that the MSM feeds on it, disagreeing with one's own side, while a pitfall for political candidates, is becoming a well worn path to fame and fortune for others. Another notable example being Nordhaus and Shellenberger who are making similar arguments in which they paint environmentalists with a similar broad brush. There is an interview of Michael Shellenberger by John Horgan over on bloggingheads.tv, much of which had me thinking "well duh" - to the extent I listened to it. More interesting commentary is this op-ed by Elizabeth Edwards, noting the shallowness of general news coverage of the presidential campaigns, in which "issues that could make a difference in the lives of Americans didn’t fit into the narrative template" which is, of course, why the PNT aims to cover at least some of the news that doesn't fit.

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 5:11 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

April 24, 2008

Science says

by Sylvia S Tognetti

The use of science as a masquerade for what is really a political debate really should be old news - when I worked at the NAS in the late '80s, I recall hearing that an agency request for a study that would say what the standards, or acceptable levels should be for toxic substances, probably under the Clean Air Act, was turned down because it was not considered a scientific question. To their credit, the EPA Scientific Advisory Panel is also clear on this in advice regarding the secondary standard for allowable concentrations of ground level ozone, necessary to control smog. But the tape continues to be replayed in assertions on blogs and elsewhere about "what science tells us we need." Yet another prominent example of this is commented on in this Nature article (sub req'd) by David Goldston, in response to criticism of the intervention by Bush to weaken regulations to control smog, and a statement by Carol Browner regarding the Clean Air Act, which she says "creates a moral and ethical commitment that we are going to let the science tell us what to do." Since the article is behind a pay wall, I'm just going to paste some snips here:

But does it? The conceit that science alone should and can dictate clean-air standards is propagated by political figures of all stripes and often by scientists themselves. Politicians always want to argue that any regulatory measure they are supporting is the only one justified by science because doing so makes their position sound objective and above the political fray. That’s especially true in today’s polarized environment, when claiming to have science on your side may be the only line of argument that can reach someone who doesn’t share your ideological persuasion.

In reality, though, regulatory decisions involve policy judgements as well as scientific determinations, and the science is often uncertain. The Clean Air Act explicitly leaves decisions to the “judgment of the administrator” of the EPA (a presidential appointee), who is advised by, among others, a scientific panel. Contending that standards are based solely on science conflates policy and science questions, muddying the debate and putting scientists needlessly in the line of fire....

Concluding:

...The debate over the new ozone standards is just beginning, but the detrimental impact of confusing science with policy can be seen by looking back at what happened in 1997, when the EPA last changed the ozone rules. The fight then was over the primary ozone standard, the one designed to protect public health. The EPA proposed tightening the standard, and Browner (then EPA’s chief) repeatedly argued that the decision was dictated by the science.

As a congressional staffer, I fought for the EPA proposal and I still support it. But what the science actually demonstrated was that for a given level of ozone, there are a predictable number of excess hospital admissions from aggravated respiratory conditions. At the time, there was little indication that ozone caused chronic health problems or deaths. Therefore the policy issue was: “How many hospital admissions are acceptable?” Needless to say, no politician was interested in engaging in that debate. The members of the EPA’s science advisory panel at the time were split over what standard to suggest, but agreed that the number was a “policy call”, not a scientific question. The science in no way told Browner exactly what to do.

All this quickly got lost in what became a prolonged and highly acrimonious debate between supporters and opponents of the new rule, in which each side accused the other of using poor science. This was bad for policy because the question of how to decide on an acceptable level of protection never got raised, never mind discussed. And it was bad for science because accusations of poor science conducted in the service of political goals can only raise distrust and confusion about the scientific enterprise.

The 1997 ozone fight, even more clearly than the 2008 rerun, was a case of a policy debate masquerading as a science debate. In such instances, scientists ought to be busy ripping off the policymakers’ masks, not donning them.

This frame works because of the perception that science provides certainty and therefore, can be called on as the ultimate authority. So it should be no mystery why the uncertainty argument works as a way to avoid policy decisions. But the idea that "we" are the ultimate authority, via the messy process of politics, remains a scary one.

[Hat tip: Inscights.]

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 10:50 AM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

April 23, 2008

If only it were rocket science

by Sylvia S Tognetti

Krugman recalls some of the pitfalls of crossing disciplinary boundaries in the Limits to Growth debates that took place in the 1970s, when its author, Jay Forrester, decided to try his hand at economics. The result earned a scathing review from William Nordhaus, for whom Krugman worked as an assistant at the time. He gives an important rule of thumb:

The general rule to remember is that if some discipline seems less developed than your own, it’s probably not because the researchers aren’t as smart as you are, it’s because the subject is harder.)

Kudos to Krugman, and also to Environmental Economics for recognizing that this can go both ways, and that "economists do the same thing to sociologists and political scientists" or "x-ologists." In fact, Nordhaus himself is among the better known culprits, as discussed in the classic paper by Funtowicz and Ravetz, The worth of a songbird (pdf), revisited by Paul Baer here on PNT in The worth of an ice sheet , with further comments from Jerry here. (Nordhaus' role in climate science also surfaces in this paper by Naomi Oreskes et al about which I have another post in progress, but in the meantime, see what the Rabett  has to say.]  Long time readers of this blog who have been following the discourse on post-normal science can skip the rest but, a few highlights worth reiterating for everyone else:

F&R made the case that predictions made by Nordhaus in 1991 regarding the costs and benefits of climate change are based on arbitrary guestimates with extremely high uncertainty, e.g., his estimated impact of climate change on farms ranges from -10.6 to +9.7, billion $. This is acknowledged with caveats in the paper, e.g., "we now move from the terra infirma of climate change to the terra incognita of the social and economic impacts of climate change." However, it is not reflected in his conclusion that "climate change is likely to produce a combination of gains and losses with no strong presumption of substantial net economic damage." You would think that since the 1990s, knowledge might have progressed. But as Paul Baer points out, even the degree of risk implied by the "flaming arrows" diagram in the Stern report, which suggest that there is little to worry about until the average temperature rises by around 3 degrees C, can be traced back to a survey of Expert Opinion on Climate Change done by Nordhaus in 1994 in which "unsurprisingly, the estimated damage consequences of various temperature scenarios were significantly skewed between economists and natural scientists, as discussed in the original and in Roughgarden, T. and S. H. Schneider (1999)." As Paul also explained:

the specific risks implied by the "flaming arrows" are nowhere quantified directly. Instead, there is a single number calculated for "catastrophic impacts," based on a probability distribution for the temperature threshold at which the risk begins, and for the “value” (in terms of lost GNP) if the catastrophe occurs. The parameters of this "damage function" are in turn based on an expert survey done by William Nordhaus in 1994. According to Stern (p. 153), "When global mean temperature rises to high levels (an average of 5°C above pre-industrial levels), the chance of large losses in regional GDP in the range of 5 - 20% begins to appear. This chance increases by an average of 10% per ºC rise in global mean temperature beyond 5°C."

Among his main concluding points:

"catastrophic damage function" doesn't adequately capture all the reasonable interpretations of the likelihood and value of melting the Greenland ice sheet, to say nothing of other potential "catastrophes." Thus, it follows that the upper bound on damages for any different stabilization level has not been established. This alone should be enough to conclude that the economic justification for the lower-bound of 450 ppm CO2-e stabilization can't be robust.

Lest anyone dismiss this as a rant against economics - it is not. I have no problem with economists who recognize the limits of their methodologies, and are clear about this in their conclusions. There are some. To be fair, I'll end this with a quote from Gregory Bateson, who sees the same pitfall in the entire relationship between science and society:

“I have been playing recently with the idea that the position of the scientific community vis-à-vis nature is comparable to the position of one complex culture in contact with another. In such a culture contact there are various tendencies towards oversimplification. The themes of the other culture which are actually complex patterns tend to be reified, and, especially the modes of interaction tend to become quantitative (money, trade, etc.)”

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 7:23 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

Exploring ignorance

by Sylvia S Tognetti

Via Inscights - a presentation given by Jeroen Van der Sluijs on the Changing relations between Science and Society: PNS and STS 1988-2008, reflecting on 20 years of the Science Technology and Society group at Utrecht University, in which he contrasts approaches to uncertainty under the different science and policy models. In one example that involves a decisions about protecting a strategic fresh-water resource, he asks how one might act, faced with 5 different answers from 5 different consultants, who were all asked the same question:

"which parts of this area are most vulnerable to nitrate pollution and need to be protected?”

Here are some possibilities:

  • Bayesian approach: 5 priors. Average and update likelihood of each (but oooops, there is no data and we need decision now)
  • IPCC approach: Lock the 5 consultants up in a room and don't release them before they have consensus
  • Nihilist approach: Dump the science and decide on another basis
  • 'Rita Verdonk' approach: open a wiki site and let the people say and vote what they feel is the truth and take that as guidance
  • Precautionary approach: protect all grid-cells
  • Precaution light: protect those grid-cells that are red according to at least one consultant
  • Academic bureaucrat approach: Weigh by citation index (or H-factor) of consultant.
  • Select the consultant you trust most
  • Real life approach: Select the consultant that best fits your policy agenda
  • Normalized post normal: weigh them by pedigree score
  • Post normal: explore the relevance of our ignorance: working deliberatively within imperfections

I wonder what we might add to the list from first hand experience? Or better yet, by elaborating on examples of the last bullet. (perhaps to be continued...)

[Reference for figure: Refsgaard, J.C., van der Sluijs J, Brown J., and ven der Keur (2006) A framework for dealing with uncertainty due to model structure error. Advances in Water Resouces 29 1586-1597 doi link]

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 1:42 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack

April 15, 2008

Quality Assessors as Paradigmatic Rational Actors

by Jerry Ravetz

A brief supplement to my last post, from: ‘Ratings game: As housing boomed, Moody’s opened up’, by Aaron Lucchetti, Wall Street Journal - Europe, April 14, 2008, pp. 16-17.

Bond issuers, knowing that a higher rating means they pay a lower interest rate, have an incentive to shop around among rating agencies. And they have clout as they shop: They are the ones paying the bill...

…“There never was an explicit directive to subordinate quality rating to market share,” says Mark Froeba, a former Moody’s analyst who recently started a bond valuation company that may compete with rating firms. “There was, rather, a palpable erosion of institutional support for rating analysis that threatened market share.” An example would be raising too many legal issues on deals, slowing them down unnecessarily.

Posted by Jerry Ravetz at 8:08 AM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

April 13, 2008

Trip highlight

by Sylvia S Tognetti

Pisan New Year

Just a "highlight" from Italy, where there is always something new old to rediscover. I went for a meeting right before Easter - and then, joined by my partner, wandered off to visit family and old friends, with a bit of sight seeing along the way. The day after Easter, we heard about and made it to the main Cathedral in Pisa just on time to see a ray of sun strike a very particular spot in the church that contains a marble egg, signaling the new year when it was traditionally celebrated, at least since the XII century, until 1749 when the city was required to adopt the Gregorian calendar. But the tradition seems to have been revived, marked also with a procession in full medieval attire (see picture below).

Not far outside the city walls, in the direction of the sea, an entire shipyard of roman ships is being excavated, buried in the sediment that long ago filled in the port of what is still often referred to as the Maritime Republic of Pisa - probably as a result of cutting down the trees used to build all those boats! Unfortunately that exhibit was closed when we peddled a few borrowed bikes over there to see it - and our visit too brief. But we did go into the Cathedral museum, which I had previously overlooked. After reading this caption about "The sculptures of the cathedral" in a room that contained samples of the different styles of carvings found in it, I started to see the place in a whole new light - lest you think of Pisa as a place to visit only to see the Leaning Tower:

"Those who go to Pisa can see monsters coming from the sea: this town is full of pagans, Turks, Lilbyans and also Parthians and mysterious Chaldeans frequent its coast" (Donizone, 12th century). At the beginning of the 12th century the monk Donizone was terrified by the infidels living in Pisa. The different "languages" spoken in the town at the time are well represented by the works preserved in this room. In fact, during its Golden Age, artists coming from all over the Mediterranean worked on the Cathedral. Romance languages were derived from spoken Latin but adopted a number of words from other languages. In the same way, Romanesque art comes form the Classic style but with the addition of elements taken from distant countries. The cultural heritage of ancient Rome is testified by the large quantities of classic marble inserted in the walls of the Duomo. The frieze of the Basilica of Neptune in Rome was used as the presbyterial screen in the Cathedral where it was completed with relief work on its reverse side by the workshop of Guglielmo, Rainaldo, and subsequently Guglielmo. These were the first known artists to take part in the decoration of the Cathedral. We can also admire three masterpieces of Islamic art: the Capital signed by Fath, the bronze basin bearing a long invocation to Allah and the famous Grifo. A combination of the lion and the eagle, the griffin was highly venerated by the Greeks and subsequently became a Christian symbol of the earthly and heavenly nature of Christ. Originally used as a perfume-burner, the griffin was placed at the top of the Cathedral until 1828, as a memento of Pisan victories over the Arabs.

The sculpture of David with the Lyre was carved by an artist from Provence and the momumental wooden Crucifix was also realised by French masters. Recent restoration has revealed the Crucifix to be the only surviving sculptlure of a group representing the Deposition, which originally decorated the main altar of the cathedral.

The trip ended back in Milan, where fashion still shows no sign of world economic trouble, pink is the new black - and a major advertising campaign, complete with pink snow, informs that it is "the color of life." Were it not for the crumbling dollar, I might have come home with a pair of pink rimmed rose colored glasses. But I did have the chance to visit with Angela Pereira - the co-editor of this blog, who will soon be reporting from some upcoming meetings on science and policy, and also with Silvio Funtowicz and Bruna de Marchi, who may yet send in highlights from a recent trip to Ecuador, along with further reflections on Post-Normal Science - a topic I'll come back to in the next post. But the more I ponder it, the more it seems like just plain common sense, which often seems lost in our feudal academic institutions.

Pisan New Year

Posted by Sylvia S Tognetti at 7:47 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack

April 2, 2008

Eye-rack, sub-prime, and three neo's

by Jerry Ravetz

The two new words, Eye-rack and sub-prime, sum up the crisis in the American empire and its ideology. And they will help us to dispense with the three neo’s.

In both cases, there is the classic cycle of fantasy, mendacity, corruption and incompetence. The details differ. For Eye-rack, the fantasy has its obvious start in the ‘Project for the New American Century’ of 1995. In that neo-con manifesto, the prospect of absolute American domination in all spheres and dimensions was given as both a necessity and a plan. Then other fantasies came in, most famously the one where a ‘high White House official’ told the writer Ron Suskind that we no longer need to be reality-based (just as we no longer need to be faith-based); our will is supreme. The mendacity of March 2003 needs no rehearsing here, the corruption of the American occupation is legion, and its incompetence is acknowledged even by its supporters. Now we have a war that we cannot win and dare not stop.

For sub-prime, the fantasy has been that what goes up must go up indefinitely. The sophisticated mathematical models whereby traders moved their bets around simply did not have facilities for dealing with bad news (Alan Greenspan has confirmed this). Even when the U.S. housing market softened two years ago, the system could not recognize the change or its potentially lethal consequences. As to corruption, the shyster practices that were indulged in by the whole American financial industry, from the bottom to the top, are now known to all. This involved large-scale mendacity, as securities of junk quality were promoted and traded as if they had real value, rather than being just the numbers pasted on by the universal mutual con-job. And the incompetence needs no description, as we may all yet be engulfed in its consequences.

The effects on the American empire, both its power and its ideology, will be drastic. As the rest of the world decouples from its economy, they will surely decouple from its politics and military as well. Since South America has effectively declared independence, Africa has gone Chinese, and the oil has gone to the Iranians and the post-Soviets, there is little left for America’s super-profits or even security. As to GB, we can say that Gordon Brown’s journey to the east, with top businessmen as pilgrims, and shouting the message “Come and buy up whatever you want” was an early sign of a declaration of independence.

The consequences of sub-prime and Eye-rack for our ideas about society should be profound. The evil pair of neo’s, -liberal and -conservative, cannot survive this debacle with their plausibility intact. After the steady degradation of the Socialist and Statist ideals in the post-war period, the right-wing reaction really did seem like a liberation to many. ‘Regulation with a light touch’ along with the stripping down of the state, has remained the constant in British politics from Thatcher herself through the three Thatcherites who have followed. And now we find all those ardent apostles of free enterprise, with all their contempt for the nanny state, running to mummy for protection against the consequences of their own criminal folly. Can anyone now say, with a straight face, that Business Knows Best, that the profit motive is the way to get things done all through social institutions, and that we should all praise and welcome our millionaires?

The neo-conservative ideology has long since been in tatters. All those who have depended on it, including the right-wingers who control Israeli politics, will find themselves exposed. As the dollar sinks and the Sovereign Wealth Funds of the Gulf states increase in influence, the balance of power can shift only one way. It is impossible to tell how all this will work out, but the old assumptions can no longer be sure to hold.

There is yet another neo that might hopefully be a casualty of this whole affair. Along with –liberal and –conservation, we have –classical. The ‘science’ of economics, in its neo-classical variety, has for long been the great rhetorical resource of the big business ideology. Critics of all sorts have attacked it for its built-in bias, its lack of reality-testing, and its pernicious effects on policies at all levels. But it has been hard to land that knockout punch, since it presents as a closed system of ideas with a certain initial plausibility and enormous political clout. Now we may have seen its fatal weakness: quality.

The present predicament of the Western banking system might be seen as a malign echo of Oscar Wilde’s definition of the cynic, as someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. For, as we all know only too well, the banks have gargantuan sums invested in products whose value they cannot determine. This is not some ethereal conception of value as a reflection of The Good; it is an estimate of the cash that might be realized if the product were put on the market. And no one knows, and cannot know; there are just too many of those products, starting with dodgy ‘subprime’ loan-shark mortgages, which were then chopped and scrambled ad infinitum.

The banks could not have entered into this madness without help from the regulators, and this is where the fatal weakness of neo-classicalism is exposed. For the neo-classical theory of the market involves only sellers and buyers. For understanding regulation we need recourse to Institutional Economics, a field which was bombed during the McCarthy period and never recovered since. So, in the best neo-classical spirit, the products of the regulators, the quality ratings from AAA downwards, became objects of buying and selling just like any other product! Why shouldn’t Quality be a commodity like any other? Outside the neo-classical framework of ideas, this would be called corruption. But inside, it is just business, which always Knows Best.

Thus the neo-classical conception of the market has now come perilously close to destroying the object of its analysis. Where will its gurus go from here? How will they apologize for this process where everything went totally according to plan and then exploded?

The interaction of ideas with politics is always messy and confused. Just now we know that neo-conservatism has collapsed, neo-liberalism is on the defensive, and neo-classicalism is threatened with total refutation. How that will all work out, remains to be seen.

Posted by Jerry Ravetz at 8:07 AM | Comments (1) | TrackBack


 


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